DS or with a stick

Well, this post is more personal than regular publications.

To put you in the background, we will explain that due to the instigation and insults received in that forum thread and by private message, the decision was made not to make any further posts on that forum. About 6 months ago.

After seeing this I set out to respond to a comment that explained how quiet the thing was to which we were told by discrediting the work of the association. I was surprised that instead of not receiving a response or following a conversation along that line, visitor discredits began to rain, including a moderator’s confrontation. So after a farewell response and assuming they would delete my messages, I deleted the DS account.

Already noticing in DS, offensive comments changed to insults and slander that were freely championing and the moderators rather than seeking to appease, or did nothing or encouraged the insults against me.

DS is a very large community, and i’m sure it is not so in all its threads, but that has actually become a thread that only encourages “the salseo” and the provocations of the trolls to get more messages. That’s why I deleted my account so As not to get into “the salseo” because the reason we met is a criminal case and we have spent a lot of time responding to these people who loop and with good words are dedicated to repeating the same questions over and over again in bucl e, filling in the spam message thread so that those who are truly interested in the information useful for the report would not find it.

As they still differ i will share the most serious message :

https://www.darkstone.es/index.php?topic=179.msg393621#msg393621

As already known Lanzanos collaborate from the first hour, since its logo carries on the web from the first moment and its tax name “Taunology” is part of the domain of our website.

Another unsubstantiated accusation is about the legal figure representing the association, as we are a “Non-Profit Affected Association” that is collected in the Ministry of the Interior under heading 621 and, has been made known to those who have asked with Anteriority. He also banded a telegram at whom they repeatedly continued to ask this over and over in loops.

Anyone outside the association can pay the necessary fees and download the bylaws and public documents thereof. Likewise our lawyer’s phone number is located on our website as it offered the possibility that any affected person could hire him on his own if he saw it convenient to add any personal damage beyond the common ones, such as damage to his image or damage Psychological. Logically, these services are at the interested party’s account and not the association.

With this we say goodbye to communicating that until after the summer we are sure that we will have no progress on our part and do not know how “the salseo” will continue, defamation and the posts of other people involved.

Edited:*
The moderators seem to have already started to calm the thread but without recriminating the actions against the association.*
the image has been edited: since in their forum they comment that they have not given us permission to share screenshots of their website and to maintain the privacy of this member who has been repeatedly banned from the thread in telegram.

☀ We're still on it

Good

Although social networks are by berating by not showing activity, we can assure that we do not stop. This is s

omething that those already belonging to the association know because we keep them periodically informed of everything possible.

With this we simply want to say that in the recurrent question of whether the registration period will be reopened we can only respond with a "yes", but until the summer passes and advance the current paperwo

rk will not be. With all this I simply inform you that the time is now published by the available media, and until then we wish you a happy holiday.

❄ Diciembre sin novedad

La asociación continúa trabajando aunque no podamos mostrar novedades hasta que el abogado nos lo notifique.

Mientras tanto seguimos sin ver ninguna actualización oficial, como era de esperar, y lo que se ve del juego sigue siendo el mismo material o material impreso específicamente para mostrarlo sin ser la producción final y siempre por parte de los colaboradores. Por otra parte, otro año más Gamezone Miniatures ha hecho su Black Friday, y con lo que muchos podrían entender como “choteo” nos ha enviado un correo a todos los mecenas recalcandolo. En la web se podían ver renders de como se supone que serían las miniaturas a unos precios elevados y con unos portes más caros de lo habitual.

Volviendo al tema de los colaboradores, el 14 nov. 2018 Agzaroth hizo una presentación del unboxing, denominado en otros medios como un-box-SIN, en el que nos muestra la demo que le ha enviado DRG, a la que añade una crítica bastante realista. Tengamos en cuenta que este material lo han recibido por ser colaboradores ayudando con las traducciones.

 

Esto viene como ejemplo de la forma de trabajar de DRG, que da la impresión de que haya impreso, en cualquier imprenta, los archivos que tiene del tablero en un cartón grande y lo ha enviado tal cual. Claramente dicen varias cosas interesantes y que aunque muchos ya las conocemos ellos las destacan:

  • Lo primero que solo es material DEMO, no está completo y no es una caja jugable (ni hay caja).
  • Que se vea esto no implica que se estén haciendo 10.000 más.
  • Que ese tablero duda que sea el definitivo. (tampoco se parecen los materiales a ninguno de los que hemos visto años anteriores en ninguna imagen).
  • La pantalla del director es una impresión en cartón sin recortar de una primera versión que junto al resto de material aún tienen que ser revisados donde si lees puedes encontrar errores.
  • Las cartas son de una calidad nunca vista (recordemos que son demos y que no por ello ser la calidad definitiva. Hqfrance explicó que esta calidad era para mostrarlas en ferias y demás). 
  • También se sorprende de que algunos les llega con piezas completamente hechas en resina y otros con piezas de metal, con el problema lógico para todos aquellos que no lo iban a pintar.
  • A parte faltan componentes como la sierpe, el manual y el libro de aventuras. (no se como denominar demo de un juego a un conjunto de componentes con los que no puedes hacer nada, salvo mirarlos, porque jugar no puedes a no ser que te inventes las reglas y las aventuras. Tras 5 años es algo imperdonable)
  • Las dudas son las mismas de siempre.

Octubre y Noviembre. Presentación y cierre de inscripciones definitivo*

Festival de juegos de mesa en Córdoba

En el festival de juegos de mesa de Córdoba pudimos hacer acto de presencia ya que al no haber tenido anteriormente otra ocasión disponible que estuviese a nuestro alcance (por ubicación u horarios), no se había visto en persona a ninguno de sus miembros.

Con el fin de darnos a conocer de manera formal por un medio que no fuese digital aceptamos la invitación y nos personamos en dicho festival, donde como veréis en el video, se hizo una breve presentación y se respondió en la medida de lo posible las preguntas que se hicieron.

Para los que no lo hayan podido ver, lo colgamos aquí.

 


Cerramos filas

Con la finalidad de presentar la denuncia a la mayor brevedad posible, el día 25 de octubre de 2018 se cerró la inscripción a la asociación de forma definitiva, y el día 30 fue la fecha límite de recoger documentación.

Tras revisar la documentación aportada y redactar la denuncia, la presentaremos y a partir de que se le haya notificado a DRG, se podrá actualizar los datos de aquellos pre-inscritos en el formulario y les faltó presentar algo para ser un miembro de pleno derecho.

El día 2 de noviembre ya se le pasó toda la documentación al abogado y hasta que la denuncia esté notificada solo nos queda esperar.

Somos más de 550 y con esto tengo claro que veremos el final de este culebrón.

Atentamente
Miguel Martín.

RE-ABRIMOS EL REGISTRO DE SOCIOS (hasta el dia 25)

Bienaventurado mortal, tras el duro trabajo de nuestros brujos y hechiceros, la invocación de una nueva cuenta bancaria, la cual está gestionada íntegramente por la asociación, ha sido posible, tras meses detrás de ello.

Volvemos a abrir el registro de nuevos socios, el cual estará abierto hasta la noche del jueves 25 de octubre de 2018.

Aquellos que no estéis registrados en el formulario, es el momento de hacerlo. Esperamos que hayáis sido precavidos y hayáis recopilado la información para adelantar el papeleo y no quedaros fuera (facturas, justificante de pago de paypal para quién pagase mediante esa forma, justificantes de lánzanos, copia del documento de identidad…), os recordamos que en la web viene un detallado manual paso a paso para los que no sepáis cómo conseguir algún documento. En cuanto al DNI, si no tenéis escáner, bastará una foto de buena calidad del mismo que sea legible. Leed con calma todo.

Aquellos que os registrasteis pero os falta abonar el ingreso u os fué devuelto por el bloqueo de los ingresos de la cuenta anterior, deberéis recibir un correo electrónico con la cuenta bancaria para llevar a cabo el ingreso. Si no os llega nada, escribidnos el lunes 22. Mirad bien el apartado de “correo no deseado” / “spam” por si se ha desviado ahí el envío.

Hemos creado una cuenta de PAYPAL, para facilitar a aquellos que prefieran este método de pago y a aquellos que vivan en el extranjero y no puedan hacer el ingreso. Aquellos que hagan el pago por paypal deberán ingresar 13,60€ por las comisiones de paypal.

Por favor, ayudar con el boca a boca avisando a todos de que se abre el plazo y su inminente cierre.

Cuando cerremos el registro se terminará de ordenar la documentación restante, enviar los avisos que nos queden, e iniciaremos el proceso judicial por la vía penal.

Saludos,

Atte. La asociación de afectados HQ25TH

Ingresos bloqueados, Paypal y cierre de inscripciones.

Lo primero, gracias a todos los inscritos.

Debido a que hemos superado el número de ingresos por transferencia gratuitos que nos ofrecía el banco, la cuota de inscripción de socio de 13€ deberás abonarla posteriormente en la cuenta bancaria que te comunicaremos en un email, el cual mandaremos entre la última semana de septiembre y la primera de octubre. Lamentamos el imprevisto, pero al tratar de hacerlo lo más económico posible, tenemos que ir midiendo todos los pasos por culpa de la burocracia. La parte buena, es que esto demuestra el éxito de la iniciativa y de que no somos los famosos “4 gatos” de los que siempre se nos ha tachado.

Otra ventaja es que a esa cuenta podremos vincular una cuenta de paypal más fácilmente, y con ello facilitaremos el abono a los extranjeros que no pueden hacer transferencias sin pagar unas comisiones disparatadas.

Las transferencias bloqueadas realmente no son un problema. A todos los que hayáis intentado hacer la transferencia os llegará de vuelta. Y os pedimos que esperéis a que tengamos la otra cuenta habilitada para hacer el ingreso.

En cuanto esté lista la nueva cuenta bancaria enviaremos un correo, con los datos de la nueva cuenta, a todos aquellos que no tengamos constancia de su transferencia.

El plazo para inscribirse en la asociación se cerrará el día 25 de Septiembre, dando un plazo posterior aún por determinar para completar la documentación y el abono de las cuotas de inscripción pendientes.

En el momento en el que tengamos disponible la cuenta de Paypal daremos un plazo de 10 días para seguir recogiendo documentos. Justo después de eso añadiremos a la denuncia la información aportada por estos últimos y podremos presentarla.

A falta de los trámites del banco, estamos en la recta final para presentar la denuncia.

Si tienes cualquier pregunta no dudes en ponerte en contacto con nosotros a través de https://t.me/demandacolectivahq25 o a través de nuestro correo afectadoshq25th@gmail.com

FAQ 1.0

  1.      Who fits the society?
  2.      Will there be further payments besides the initial fee?
  3.   Languages
  4.   I am currently involved in a civil lawsuit. Can I still join?
  5.   I got my pledge from a former backer with Gamezone approval. Can I still join?    
  6.   Who is supporting this action? Is Lanzanos in charge?
  7.   Data protection
  8.   What happens if we lose the lawsuit? Will we be forced to pay the expenses?  
  9.   I am not Spanish and/or do not live in Spain. Can I still join?
  10.   Statute of limitations for criminal offense
  11.   Trolling

Firstly, and just to be clear from the beginning; this is not business. We are just a bunch of backers who are working hard to get justice done, thus please be patient and understanding. Try to picture yourself in our shoes, fighting injustice as if we were immersed in a medieval-like adventure, exploring a land full of trolls with limited social life.

  1. Who fits the society?

All of those who either supported the HQ25 crowdfunding campaign, pre-purchased the game through the GameZone web site or got the pledge from a former backer are welcome, as long as you have not gotten the purchased product, neither your money back.

  1.   Will there be further payments besides the initial fee?

In principle, a single payment of 13€ per member will suffice to cover all the expenses. Nevertheless, as is laid down in the society Statute, the members may agree a new fee if required (for example, if the legal procedure takes longer than expected). Yet, we will try our best to avoid further payments besides the initial fee.  

  1.  Languages

Although the official language of the society is Spanish, we are working to translate all the information into English, French and German. Please, note that all the translation work is being conducted by volunteers during their free time. If you are good on languages and want to lend a hand, just drop us an email with the subject “I would like to help with translation” or contact us through Facebook (private messenger):

     

https://www.facebook.com/Asociaci%C3%B3n-de-Afectados-de-Heroquest-25-Aniversario-1294604057342275

You may also consider Google Translator or DeepL for automatic translation into your home language.

  1.  I am currently involved in a civil lawsuit. Can I still join?

a)  I am currently on a trial

Most of the people who have taken legal actions against DRG, Ludofilia and GameZone chose civil litigation. However, the society was conceived to file criminal charges against DRG and Ludofilia instead. In case you want to join, just let us know that you are currently involved in a civil lawsuit. Simply, your civil lawsuit will stall until the class action is completed.  

b) My trial already finished and there was a verdict

 

You can join the society as a partner with full rights in case you won the trial and yet you did not get your money back. Otherwise you can join the society as a volunteer to provide support.

 

  1.  I got my pledge from a former backer with Gamezone approval. Can I still join?

You can still join the society as long as you are the legal owner of the pledge (i.e. Gamezone provided you with full rights on the pledge)

  1.  Who is supporting the class action? Is Lanzanos in charge?

The society was founded by some backers of the HQ25 project that have been in touch since a few years ago through the Facebook group “Quiero mi Heroquest 25 aniversario!”. After founding the society, we contacted Lanzanos to inform on the situation, and then they decided to collaborate with us (note that they are also a victim of the HQ25 drama). Lanzanos is making use of their own database for emailing the backers, and they are further supporting the society by providing free hosting for the web (we really appreciate that). Also, they have provided a bank account for the society, which allowed us to save the bank account maintenance fee.

  1.  Data protection

The database of the society is fully independent from that of Lanzanos, and no third parties are involved.Note that there has not been any data transfer from Lanzanos to the society (and vice versa). Lanzanos owns its private database and just did us the favor of mailing the backers of the HQ25 project to disseminate the information concerning the creation of the society. Thus, although all the backers are welcome to join the society, those who do not join within the next weeks will not be longer able to participate in the class action lawsuit, and they will not be further updated in this regard, since Lanzanos will not share any data with the society.

  1.  What happens if we lose the lawsuit? Will we be forced to pay the expenses of the process?

In the worst-case scenario, we may lose the trial. However, according to the Article 15.2 of the Organic Law 1/2002 of 22th March, the members of the society will not be responsiblefor any expenses derived from the process. It would be the society itself that responds with its present and future goods, but never the members.

https://www.boe.es/buscar/act.php?id=BOE-A-2002-5852&tn=1&p=20110923#a15

  1.  I am not Spanish or do not live in Spain. Can I still join?

Yes, you can. Note that the society shall undertook any action on behalf of the backers.

 

  1. Criminal offense and statute of limitations

a)   Criminal offense

The judge will ultimately decide if there is room for criminal offense, as well as the severity of it. In the worst-case scenario for DRG, and according to the Article 250 of the criminal code, he might serve a prison sentence up to 6 years if the total fraud amount is proved to be over 250.000€. Note that Gamezone collected more than 600.000€ just through the crowdfunding campaign, but the actual income could be way more than that…

https://www.boe.es/buscar/act.php?id=BOE-A-1995-25444&tn=1&p=20150428#a250

b) Statute of limitations for criminal offense

Depending on the final verdict of the judge, and according to the Article 131 of the criminal code, the offense might be limited to a maximum of 10 years from the date on which it was committed. Yet, we are working under the assumption that it is limited to 4 years from the announcement of the first delivery date, as suggested by our lawyer.

  1.  Trolling

Although it is common sense not to approach a starving “troll”, we warn you against few people that, for some reason, still support Gamezone and DRG unconditionally. They will try defaming and manipulating the public opinion for the sole purpose of getting people to give up. They will argue that there is no way we can get the game neither our money back, no matter what. You are warned!

 


.
.

(Translated by volunteers. Thank you)
FAQs 1.0 (rewritten version by RMV)